Crooked Finger (crookedfingers) wrote,
Crooked Finger

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true and false Christianity

Jonny Keen
I wonder where is the call to repentance in this sermon. Where is the call to turn away from sin and embrace the Lord Jesus with the arms of saving faith. The old mystics laid out the stages of spiritual development and they always started with purgation/ the Purgative Way then comes Illuminative Way and then Unitive Way/read 'Carthusian Spirituality: The Writings Of Hugh Of Balma And Guigo De Ponte' [The Classics Of Western Spirituality]. Why comes to the Lord when there is no conviction of sin? Yes we are to live in the presence of God and drink in His holy love-but we must come to Him for forgiveness of our sins. "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission [forgiveness] of sins" Matt 26:28.

a response from a follower of Eric G.
I feel you lack a basic understanding of the setting this was in and the fact that he was not the only speaker at this event . Eric is actually extremely evangelistic and this is something I have heard only his close friends mention over the years as he does not make a display of it .Even within a church there is something called “ outreach “ ministry ... the way you would teach to say kids who regularly go to church and grew up in church .. would be different than the way you would teach in a setting where all those kids invited the kids in the neighborhood or in their school who have not been exposed to the good news . The way a book of theology is written for a theology student wouldn’t be the same way a theology book is written for the layman . Most people who attend these particular conferences are people who have already decided to walk with Jesus and are desiring to mature so that is his audience . Even within my field .. it’s important to continue to grow my knowledge base . I would be disappointed if I went to a lecture to deepen my knowledge on arterial blood gases and the instructor spent 2 hrs discussing CPR. Something that is basic and foundational ... before we grade the teacher on the content I think we need to at least take the time to know who his audience is. This isn’t a “catch the fish “ audience... this is a “clean the fish” audience . And the best way to clean the fish is to actually experience Jesus . It said “ TASTE and see .” We need knowledge and experience . Something that unfortunately we all seem to fall into one ditch or the other .. but God is faithful and he will finish what he started in each and every one of us . Many blessings Brother .

Jonny Keen's response to the above comments
I still believe in every sermons the Cross of Christ should be preached. I believe the Christian life is a life of repentance. To me if a Christian wants to SEE the glory of God it is displayed at the Cross. The apostle Paul wrote "For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified" 1 Corinth. 2:2. Yes a Christian can live a life of unceasing prayer, but he or she never stops repenting or forsaking his sins. Like I wrote there is no experiencing God without repentance/the way of purgation. Read the spiritual writers of the Church for example St. Teresa of Avila 'The Interior Castle'. Anyway I am sure there are at these conferences gospel preaching. I am sure Eric does holds to the importance of a sinner undergoing a radical conversion experience before going on to experiencing conscious union with the Beloved the Lord Jesus Christ. peace

a comment from Eric G. to my comments about his message
Jonny Keen this message was the 4th of 9 messages during the course of the conference. Repentance was the first message preached by Daniel Kolenda.

Jonny Ken's response to Eric G.'s comments
I am curious about this statement about Kolenda found on the internet "Daniel Kolenda is a modern missionary evangelist who has led more than 19-million people to Christ face-to face through massive open-air evangelistic campaigns." Do you believe these 19 million people truly repented of their sins and underwent a radical conversion? I could not find anything on the internet setting forth Kolenda's doctrine of repentance or his doctrinal understanding of regeneration and conversion. In my life as a Christian going on 48 years I have seen very few true biblical conversions. I also do not think what you set forth in your messages is found among most people who profess to be Christians. What you set forth in your messages is what is called in our circles as Experimental Religion as is set forth in the writings of the 17th century English Puritans for example. I just thought I would share my thoughts on your theology of conversion/the Christian life. In the end I take comfort knowing the Lord will save His blood bought people the elect the Church. Below is a message you might find interesting.

another response by one of Eric's followers concerning my reflections on the message Take Eat
Seeking Jesus in the manner being taught eat and drink of Him, repentance is required. You will come to this place through repentance because we turn to Jesus.

Dear friend, I encourage you to seek Jesus instead of criticizing men and women of God who are spreading the Gospel, introducing Jesus, and leading people to have a deeper intimacy with Jesus...all of which will produce repentance. It is the role of the Holy Spirit to convict of sin. We speak the truth and the Holy Spirit does the rest. Repentance is not the complete nor the only message of the Gospel. It is the first step, and an extremely important step, of which without we cannot encounter Jesus in the manner being taught, but it is not the only message of the Gospel. Once repentance has occurred, we need to encourage and teach all to have a relationship with Jesus.

Jonny Keen's response to the comments posted by one of Eric's followers concern my reflections on what is true biblical preaching
I hear what you are saying in your comments. I am just curious and not being critical. I have been watching Eric's videos for awhile and can relate to what he is saying since I have been reading books on Christian Spirituality for many years (I went to Bible College and Seminary ). I have not heard in Eric's videos anything about justification by faith. What gives us boldness to come to the Lord in sweet holy fellowship? It is because I have been clothed with His righteousness/imputed righteousness. I hear in Eric's messages a mixture of Pentecostalism, Christian Mysticism, and Higher Life teachings. I have found that mixture interesting to listen to as a Christian. Many years ago I was in the Charismatic Movement/Jesus People movement early 1970's. I suppose if I was to attend one of these Pentecostal conferences I would hear messages on the doctrine of salvation, repentance, regeneration, justifying faith, sanctification, etc. . . Once again I am not being critical just sharing my reflections on Eric's messages. There are all kinds of people in the Church besides people like me. In the end God will save His elect and bring in the eternal Kingdom of Glory. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
You might find this sermon a rich spiritual blessing by Dr. Joel Beeke-

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